Members-only forum

HEMA Alliance news, as well as upcoming and past events.
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John Harmston
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Members-only forum

Postby John Harmston » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:53 am

As many of you know, this forum contains an Alliance members-only forum that is invisible to folks who do not currently belong to the HEMA Alliance as full members. If you are currently a full member of the HEMA Alliance, but do not see this forum in the main forum list, please PM me and I will troubleshoot for you.

Full membership, as opposed to the hundreds of forum-ites who belong to affiliate clubs (both insured and non-insured), provides a number of benefits, primary of which includes the right to vote in the Alliance elections and otherwise participate in official Alliance business.

If you are interested in learning more about the benefits of becoming a full member of the HEMA Alliance, you should read this thread: http://hemaalliance.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=584

To become a member, click here: http://hemaalliance.com/?page_id=33
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Jeffrey Hull
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Re: Members-only forum

Postby Jeffrey Hull » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:21 pm

Hello HEMA Alliance

What bad news: The existence of a HEMAA Members-Only Forum.

This is an outrage. I am outraged. :evil:

What goes on at the secret forum?
(That is de facto what it is.)

Do you realise that having such makes HEMAA more like ARMA than it should be?
(The wrong path to choose in any event.)

Does anybody recall the kind of character assassination that went on at the "E-List" aka Elite-List of ARMA?
(I recall it - and so should many of you.)

Tell me, how be it impossible that such could never happen at your secret forum?
(I was certain that it was your policy to never have such - evidently wrong.)

I guess I cannot blame you : At least that part of the HEMAA Forums is probably not plagued by the classical fencers who have infested the rest of HEMAA Forums recently.
(And if anybody takes offence at that, at least realise that I said it publicy and not privately, as per a members-only forum.)

You are welcome to hate me, admittedly a nonmember, for saying all that, but realise I say all that because I actually care about this Alliance and do not want to witness it condemning itself to negativity, as ARMA has done to itself.

For once, think about what I say, instead of just dismissing it. :|

Earnestly,

Jeffrey Hull

Free fencing friend (?)

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T. Arndt
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Re: Members-only forum

Postby T. Arndt » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:03 pm

Jeffrey Hull wrote:Hello HEMA Alliance

What bad news: The existence of a HEMAA Members-Only Forum.

This is an outrage. I am outraged. :evil:

What goes on at the secret forum?
(That is de facto what it is.)

Do you realise that having such makes HEMAA more like ARMA than it should be?
(The wrong path to choose in any event.)....


The HEMA Alliance forum is much less interesting in actuality than it is in your imagination. I assure you. You know many members of the Alliance, I'm surprised you would assume they would conduct the organization's internal affairs is the negative way he-who-shall-not-be-named sometimes does.

All that being said, I can see your point of view. I think it would be a good idea for the members only area to simply be read-only for non-members. That seems to be a reasonable compromise to me between the ability to conduct business efficiently and openness. But that is just my initial thought and 2 cents. So long as the members only area continues to not be a negative place, I don't really care that much that it is closed to non-members.
Wisconsin Historical Fencing Association (WHFA)
A HEMA Alliance Affiliate

“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?” -Juvenal

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Nihil Aven
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Re: Members-only forum

Postby Nihil Aven » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:43 pm

I ultimately must concur with the aforementioned sentiments as expressed my Mr. Hull.

Anything that is to be treated as secret, private, behind closed doors, confidential, or to put it nicely, "members only", just reeks of favoritism/elitism at the expense of the greater populace. Such a system has never worked in any form of application.

That said, I believe that Mr. Arndt has presented a good form of compromise; leave the forum open and observable by all eyes from every faction and party, and allow them to see what goes on for themselves, and let them digest that information and formulate their own opinions, but deny them the privilege of posting or giving them any say in the matter unless they pay the fee to join, and if anyone exploits the loophole and posts threads concerning the content of that closed forum in a public/open forum in order to circumvent that inhibition, then possibly place a temporary ban on their account for a week's to a month's time depending on what the moderators deem necessary.

Just a thought...
Nihil Aven

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"Preservation, Practice, Proliferation"

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John Harmston
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Re: Members-only forum

Postby John Harmston » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:31 pm

Welcome to the forum, Nihil.

Having a closed forum to conduct official business is hardly a nefarious practice, regardless of any past ugliness you have encountered in other organizations.

I encourage you all to officially join the Alliance and disabuse yourself of any conspiracy theories you are entertaining. ;)
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Ben Floyd
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Re: Members-only forum

Postby Ben Floyd » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:30 am

Since January, there have been 6 topics made in the member's forum. It's not the trove of gossip you may be thinking. One was deleted for not being official business.
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Krieg School of Historical Fencing, a HEMAA group

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Richard Marsden
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Re: Members-only forum

Postby Richard Marsden » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:31 pm

Hull.

I love you, you know this, so hear me out.

Let me present a case for the members only secret elite forum, then tell me if I have eased your concerns.

This is my take, so bear with.

First, the HEMA Alliance Members only forum is as elitist as your pocketbook. Anyone can become a member and there are no barriers to entry beyond cost. Cost helps pay for the HEMA Alliance operations. If there were no members, there would be no HEMA Alliance. So, by joining up you become a citizen. This is fair. The organization cannot exist without its members and they get more than non-members.

Citizens pay for this forum, projects, shirts, advertisement, insurance and other such things. Citizens also get to vote. When the HEMA Alliance elects its leadership, the HEMA Alliance citizens are nominated and voted on by other HEMA Alliance citizens.

So what do citizens get?

Access to insurance for themselves and their group
Affiliation for their club
A vote for their General Council each year
The option of being on the General Council
Involvement in the workings of the GC

I'm currently on the GC and one of the things I've wanted to do is be beholden to the members. They put in the money, they elected me, I want to serve their needs. The HEMA Alliance Members forum does just that. It has a place to voice concerns to the GC from the voters. It displays what the GC has voted on. Mostly procedures and expenditures. It also has requests for help in doing the day to day task of running the GC. We need some assistance in tracking members for example.

If there is no place for the paying members to get their voices heard, then it becomes possible for wandering trolls to simply crap on everything. Only those interested in the HEMA Alliance's success will become members.

Does this mean the HEMA Alliance is hostile to non-members? Hardly. 99 percent of the activity on the forum is open to the general public, trolls, non-members, future members, and so on.

I'm not against making that forum view-able, but I would vote against any measures to let non-members interfere in it. They don't get to yell at me for doing my job. The citizens do!

Long-winded, but, I want to mark this members only forum as something different than an 'invite only' forum, or a 'masters forum' or something like that. Anyone who wants in, can become a member, and given it covers the operations of the alliance, which is elected and run by members, this is fair. The HEMA Alliance is also cheap as we can make it, with special deals for lifetime membership.

In the future, gasp, I'd like to offer MORE benefits for members. They paid in, they do the grunt work, they do the voting, so in my mind a big part of 'our' job is to serve their needs and reward them for their time and money.

PS - Become a member! Join me.

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Jeffrey Hull
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Re: Members-only forum

Postby Jeffrey Hull » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:45 pm

HEMA Alliance

Thank you for replying. I think that I understand now. Such a forum seems necessary for making the Alliance function for its membership*. And in the context of its democratic nature, there is no need to worry about, nor tolerance for, anything like character assassination. Just its business. :idea:

* By the way : Would not any given person of the membership be properly called an "ally" given that it is an Alliance? :?:

My regards & friendship,

Jeffrey Hull

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Richard Marsden
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Re: Members-only forum

Postby Richard Marsden » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:50 pm

I'm glad you asked about it! I like expounding, perhaps too much, on my personal vision of what we are and who we represent, and why we do what we do-as I see it. But I'm just one of many in an alliance.

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Re: Members-only forum

Postby RJ McKeehan » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:23 am

I just want to say thank you so much to Richard for offering a very clear and comprehensive answer to what Jeffrey asked. I also want to extend my thanks to Jeffrey for reading Richard's post and accepting his explanation. I might sound crazy, but seeing that kind of thing on the HEMA forum makes me really happy, since I have almost never seen it happen on other forums before. (Of course HEMA forum goers are the best anyway ;))
RJ McKeehan
South Coast Swords, Orange County, CA
HEMA Alliance Lifetime Member


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