Play, Stucke, Stück, Zogho

For internal business and projects of Kron Martial Arts. Non-Kron users are welcome to post relevant material.
steve hick
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 4:52 pm

Re: Play, Stucke, Stück, Zogho

Postby steve hick » Thu May 19, 2011 4:10 am

RJ McKeehan wrote:
Jeffrey Hull wrote:That said, if someone does not like "play" then why not just call it "move"? That says it all - they are each moves, after all, are they not? :?:


I was always under the impression that a "play" was a collection of the attacks and responses that go together, where as a "move" would be just one thing like doing A zornhau.


Actually, in an article that Eric Myers and I did for a book, that apparently will never be published due to "that publishing issue" we had individual techniques, phrases, and plays identified in Gome de Figueiredo's Memorial - as he had in his avisos section what techniques "turned into" which other techniques, and then these were grouped as phrases that served some short term tactical purpose, that then were grouped into an overall tactical objective. Which cuts turned best into which thrusts for example to clear the center and then make the opponent back away, as part of fighting several folks in front of you.
Steve

Craig Shackleton
HEMA Alliance Member
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Play, Stucke, Stück, Zogho

Postby Craig Shackleton » Thu May 19, 2011 4:27 am

Not exactly following the main thrust of the discussion, but "Jeu de la Hache" is of course "Play of the Axe" or "Axeplay," which is possibly more like the modern term "swordplay" than speaking of a "play." However, I suspect there is a connection between the term swordplay and plays of the sword.

Also, I find it interesting (and often point out to novices) that in English we often refer to swordplay and footwork. Swordplay is fun, footwork is arduous.

I personally tend to use the term sequence. I don't think I have consistent terminology for the smaller bits, but looking at it now, I would call them actions, and the parts of an action I would call a motion. So you tie the motions of the body, feet and hands together to make an action, and a series of actions is a sequence.

As always, YMMV.

User avatar
John Harmston
Site Admin
Posts: 735
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:27 pm
Location: Utah
Contact:

Re: Play, Stucke, Stück, Zogho

Postby John Harmston » Thu May 19, 2011 8:47 am

Craig Shackleton wrote:Also, I find it interesting (and often point out to novices) that in English we often refer to swordplay and footwork. Swordplay is fun, footwork is arduous.


Very nice. I am going to start a new thread related to this item...
John Harmston
Senior Instructor - True Edge Academy
HEMA Alliance Forum Admin
Lifetime Member, HEMA Alliance

User avatar
Michael Chidester
Wiktenauer Project Director
Posts: 2301
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:19 pm
Location: Brighton, MA
Contact:

Re: Play, Stucke, Stück, Zogho

Postby Michael Chidester » Thu May 19, 2011 12:40 pm

We also talk about blade-work and hand-work, so I don't think it signifies.
Michael Chidester
Wiktenauer Director
HEMA Alliance, WMAC

Insquequo omnes gratuiti fiunt

Craig Shackleton
HEMA Alliance Member
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Play, Stucke, Stück, Zogho

Postby Craig Shackleton » Thu May 19, 2011 12:45 pm

I suppose, but I would not consider of those terms to be common use, as swordplay is. I never heard either of them (to my recollection) before starting HEMA. Swordplay is a very common term.

Contrarily, I've never heard anyone say 'footplay,' and if I did, my assumption would be that they were not talking about martial arts.

User avatar
Jason Taylor
Posts: 605
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:10 am

Re: Play, Stucke, Stück, Zogho

Postby Jason Taylor » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:51 am

Hmm. If I'm not mistaken, the word "Stück" is used in modern German for actual plays, as in on stages. Kind of fits nicely with what Jeff points out above--it's a drama or play in that sense.

Personally I don't care for the word "device," and like "play," but I'd ultimately be just as happy with "piece," for that matter.

Jason
Kron Martial Arts, Orange County
HEMA Alliance Founding Member
World-Famous Sickle Authority and General Proponent of all Things Sickle

Peter Hoff
HEMA Alliance Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:35 pm
Location: Encinitas, CA
Contact:

Re: Play, Stucke, Stück, Zogho

Postby Peter Hoff » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:51 pm

I personally tend to use the term sequence. I don't think I have consistent terminology for the smaller bits, but looking at it now, I would call them actions, and the parts of an action I would call a motion. So you tie the motions of the body, feet and hands together to make an action, and a series of actions is a sequence


I like these. They may not be historical, but they are unambiguous and require very little explanation to the uninitiated.

Personally, I've always seen the term "play" as an abbreviation of "swordplay". The modern usage of "swordplay" is more generic, but I see no issue with calling a sequence of attacks and counters "a swordplay", and shortening that to "a play".

Also, I think it's good to come to some sort of agreement on terminology to facilitate communication, but I don't know how much sense it makes to try and be strict about using the terminology in the manuals. We're dealing with living languages, and the meanings of words change over time.


Return to “Kron Martial Arts”