Messer Study Group

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Jason Taylor
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Re: Messer Study Group

Postby Jason Taylor » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:21 am

Quick question, Mike: the Wiktenauer messer manual for Lecküchner says the English translation is from CGM 582 (I believe that was it), where the images come from as well. Is that just one of several versions of the Lecküchner material? I'm just curious because the other listings (the transcriptions and so forth) list other manuals. Or is CGM a different manual that includes the same authors?
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Ben Michels
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Re: Messer Study Group

Postby Ben Michels » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:59 am

Jason Taylor wrote:Quick question, Mike: the Wiktenauer messer manual for Lecküchner says the English translation is from CGM 582 (I believe that was it), where the images come from as well. Is that just one of several versions of the Lecküchner material? I'm just curious because the other listings (the transcriptions and so forth) list other manuals. Or is CGM a different manual that includes the same authors?


All three of the manuals shown in the transcription section are Lecküchner. The 'Munich Version' is actually CGM 582.

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Jason Taylor
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Re: Messer Study Group

Postby Jason Taylor » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:44 am

Ah, okay. Thanks. Got it.
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Michael Chidester
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Re: Messer Study Group

Postby Michael Chidester » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:49 am

Yes, that note is just to let you know that the author was only working from one of the versions, and which one it was.
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Jason Taylor
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Re: Messer Study Group

Postby Jason Taylor » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:15 am

Thanks. I think I see that info in the sidebar now, but I'm still getting used to the format.

All right all, let's get focused, then. I say that, lacking full information on anybody else's messer techniques (the Wiktenauer messer is still blank for Lecküchner, though the Longsword part is there) we just go ahead and work from Lebkommer until such time as we can get access to Lecküchner. The link I gave is still a pretty good source, and I've figured out the first play.

One of the things I want to discuss for moving forward with Kron's plans for world dominance is getting the study groups a format for working within to get progress going. The first step for that will pretty much always be a manual basis (except for the viking stuff, which is a special case).

I'm going to post another thread about getting our act together for class meetings, and we can discuss some of that material at the cutting party, but I will plan on providing time in every class session coming up for the study groups to get their thang on.

See you guys tomorrow!

Jason
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Myles Cupp
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Re: Messer Study Group

Postby Myles Cupp » Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:58 pm

Does anybody have any remarks or observations after using that weird one-handed katana thing at the pumpkin cutting? I may not have said it while we were using it (or even when I tried it once) that we might've wanted to pay closer attention to its possible relevance in messer studies.

Anyone else think so or am I way off the mark in seeing some relevant applicability to our messer studies in that katana-thingy?
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Jason Taylor
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Re: Messer Study Group

Postby Jason Taylor » Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:02 am

In it's own way, I think that was a closer approximation than anything else we had there yesterday. As a test-cutting model, it's good enough.

Trainers is another issue. The boffers are okay, but something rigid will help us understand the real technique a lot better.

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Myles Cupp
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Re: Messer Study Group

Postby Myles Cupp » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:10 pm

Just so no one thinks this study group has gone inactive, I am posting to say it is quite active, especially as of the January 19th practice.

Over the past several weeks I've spent alot of time reviewing the exceptionally informative messer videos done by the MEMAG on Youtube as well as checking out the messer resources on the Wiktenauer.. If nothing else I am trying to grasp the theory of the messer combat system.

At the January 19th practice, I tried putting some of my theoretical understanding of the messer into action against William and Ryan. The result? I was quite pleased with the readily apparent effectiveness of the techniques as described in the manuals.

I'll now repost my summary of the messer activities as I posted in the practice thread itself. Others who handled the messer boffers (Ryan, William and Dylan) can weigh in with their own assessments as well.

Finally, in addition to the whole host of things Jonathan has on his list, we (at least me, Dylan and William) desperately want to know how soon Jonathan can put together a kit with which to construct the messer boffers. At least tell us what stuff we need to buy and instructions on how to assemble it.
Towards the end of sparring, Ryan, Dylan, William and myself retired to one of the field for some messer freeplay and I must say it was absolutely exhilarating. We went with some real power and intent with minimal protective gear (that is to say, none) and even the hardest of hits were nothing substantial. I even intentionally tried this technique from Paulus Kal to some successful effect:

Image

Realistically I sustained a not-too-serious cut to the arm while I plunged my messer into William's nose horizontally across his face. That was the most substantial hit either of us sustained; we had some concern he might've received a bloody nose but all was well fortunately. Perhaps in the future we will consider masks. Returning to matters of technique, it is exceptionally gratifying when techniques like that actually work in rigorous freeplay with full intent. It is a testament to how well the boffers feel in the bind.
Also, Ryan and I also tried the boffers and it was absolutely amazing how long we initially went, again, with near full power and intent, without actually hitting one another. It was nigh acrobatic to what degree we were able to take some serious cuts at one another without drawing blood.

The bottom line... we NEED more messer boffers!
Lifetime HEMAA Member
Kron Martial Arts, CA
Psalm 119:89
"For we all acknowledge that it is with the sword that Kingdoms are protected, Religions are defended, injuries are avenged and Nations achieve peace and happiness."
Salvator Fabris, 1606

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Myles Cupp
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Re: Messer Study Group

Postby Myles Cupp » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:04 pm

The messer study group is advancing. While at the Koroneburg Renaissance Faire I decided to take the plunge and buy two wooden swords which very closely approximated the blade design as depicted in the Codex Wallerstein. They are of course quite light and the wood edges can easily be worn down so I am thinking of attaching a strip of leather all along the blade.

Basically, the messer study group now has two messer-like objects made of wood with which to practice. I'll now try to get the ball rolling on really learning some technique.
Lifetime HEMAA Member
Kron Martial Arts, CA
Psalm 119:89
"For we all acknowledge that it is with the sword that Kingdoms are protected, Religions are defended, injuries are avenged and Nations achieve peace and happiness."
Salvator Fabris, 1606

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Myles Cupp
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Re: Messer Study Group

Postby Myles Cupp » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:28 pm

I've been asked what the "messers" look like so I found a picture online:

Image
Lifetime HEMAA Member
Kron Martial Arts, CA
Psalm 119:89
"For we all acknowledge that it is with the sword that Kingdoms are protected, Religions are defended, injuries are avenged and Nations achieve peace and happiness."
Salvator Fabris, 1606


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