New Material

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New Material

Postby Steven Reich » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:33 am

At the end of the first sword-alone section in the Anonimo Bolognese, there is a collection of offenses and their counters when the two swordsmen are facing each other in the same guard (similar to some of Dall'Agocchie's material). The material covers the four primary guards (Coda Lunga Stretta - Right Foot Forward, Porta di Ferro Stretta, Coda Lunga Stretta - Left Foot Forward, and Cinghiara Porta di Ferro Stretta.

It's available as a PDF here.

Enjoy!

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Re: New Material

Postby Keith P. Myers » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:35 pm

Cool! Thanks! It will be interesting to compare this to Dall' Agocchie, given that Anonimo is considered early and Agocchie late.
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Re: New Material

Postby Keith P. Myers » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:03 am

I had a chance to print it out and look it over a bit. It has more detailed exchanges..or longer exchanges...then in dall' Agocchie. It is interesting that the exchanges described seem to be instructional for both sides and not just a "here is how you counter this...." description. What footwork do you think is being intended when he says "step forward with your right foot" when the right foot is already out in front? Is this a gathering step? An accressimento? For avoiding the falso beat directed at your sword or sword-hand he says simply to "withdraw your hand." Do you think this is just pulling the hand back towards the opposite shoulder and leaving the sword pointing forward....or pulling back to the opposite shoulder with the sword pointed back over the shoulder? Seems like the first option would still result and taking the beat on your blade, though if the second option was intended it seems like it would be more explicitly noted.

What is the "stoccata trivellata"?

Good stuff!
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Steven Reich
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Re: New Material

Postby Steven Reich » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:50 am

I like the Anonimo stuff. What is neat about this collection is that the material is in a different format that most of the rest. In this, both the offense and the counter are clearly given (he does that for the Spada e Brocchiero Piccolo, too), but the majority of the material is from the point of view of the "winner" with the actions of the opponent only given in bits and pieces similar to how it is in Marozzo.

When he says step forward with the foot that is already forward, I take that to mean an accrescimento. In general, when the Bolognese want you to make a Chasing Step forward, they tend to do describe it in two ways: 1. with your rear foot, push your front foot forward, or 2. bring your rear foot up near your front foot, then step forward with your front foot.

In the case of withdrawing your hand to avoid a Falso, I would just draw it straight back--i.e. do the quickest thing I can to avoid getting hit in the hand. I'd probably try to avoid my sword getting hit, if I could. However, I don't believe he intends any significant turn of the hand as if he did, I believe he would either describe the hand going into a different guard (there are actions like that in the other material, and I remember a few in Dall'Agocchie, as well), or he would tell you to also make a Mezza Volta di Mano, or both. Of course, absence of evidence...

Finally, the Stoccata Trivellata is somewhat of a mystery. The Bolognese use it and Altoni uses it, but none of them provide a clear description. The Anonimo seems to use it primarily from one of the Coda Lunga Stretta guards. The only real clue is the meaning of the word trivellare: to drill, to bore into. Now I believe that it is a Stoccata delivered with a turning of the hand, sort of like starting as a Stoccata and finishing as a Punta Riversa, but that's just a semi-educated guess.

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Dan Sellars
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Re: New Material

Postby Dan Sellars » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:29 am

Awesome, thanks Steve, I have been wanting to know more of the Anonimo sword alone for ages now.

I'll have to dig into this later.

Dan.
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Re: New Material

Postby Steven Reich » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:36 am

I have other material from the Anonimo which I am thinking about proofing and putting out. All of it is in the same format as this last batch. I realize that there are those who prefer a straight translation, but it is far less work for me to proof the material I have already extracted than to do a new translation. The material I'm strongly considering putting up next is a set of about two dozen offenses and counter for the Spada e Brocchiero Piccolo (sword and small buckler). However, unlike the collection of stuff I just put up for sword-alone, and also, unlike Manciolino's similar material for Spada e Brocchiero Piccolo, the stuff from the Anonimo generally does not have the swordsmen in matching guards.

Anyway, I'll see how much effort it would be to edit and upload. I assume that people here would be interested...

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Re: New Material

Postby Keith P. Myers » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:40 am

Heck yeah! Would love to see it! :) I like the idea that the fencers are in mis-matched guards. That's how real life works! BTW...what's your best guess for the date of the material in the Anonimo?
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Dan Sellars
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Re: New Material

Postby Dan Sellars » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:45 am

Steven Reich wrote:I have other material from the Anonimo which I am thinking about proofing and putting out. All of it is in the same format as this last batch. I realize that there are those who prefer a straight translation, but it is far less work for me to proof the material I have already extracted than to do a new translation. The material I'm strongly considering putting up next is a set of about two dozen offenses and counter for the Spada e Brocchiero Piccolo (sword and small buckler). However, unlike the collection of stuff I just put up for sword-alone, and also, unlike Manciolino's similar material for Spada e Brocchiero Piccolo, the stuff from the Anonimo generally does not have the swordsmen in matching guards.

Anyway, I'll see how much effort it would be to edit and upload. I assume that people here would be interested...

Steve


Now let me think, would I be interested...? :-)

Personally I think this table format is good. While a full translation would be ideal I know that is not likely to happen and think that with the other full translations I do have I can make sense of the actions being described here. So please, any more you have time to do would be appreciated.

Regards,
Dan.
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Re: New Material

Postby Steven Reich » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:34 am

Well, it took a little longer than I anticipated, and I still plan to do another revision sometime in the future, but the actions for Spada e Brocchiero Piccolo from the Anonimo Bolognese are available for download a a pdf document here.

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Re: New Material

Postby Richard Marsden » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:07 am

Any way to add visuals to this?


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