Fiore on the Wiktenauer!

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Michael Chidester
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Fiore on the Wiktenauer!

Postby Michael Chidester » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:21 am

After two weeks of near-constant work, Fiore delli Liberi is now live on the Wiktenauer. (Two weeks is actually faster than anticipated.) Fiore's treatises are some of the best of the 15th century, and since they possess both detailed illustrations -and- extensive text, they form an important piece of the puzzle that is HEMA.

Please note that more than most others, this is the document that we are allowed to offer, not the one that we'd like to. There are still a few sections without Getty/Morgan text, and that text will likely not be forthcoming any time soon. Additionally, if the museums were willing to play ball then the bulk of the text would be illustrated with high-res images from the Paris and the Getty, with the Pisani-Dossi only picking up the slack for its unique content. That is not the case, so the Pisani-Dossi version is doing all of the heavy lifting, and images from the Getty are only included (in low resolution) when there is no alternative.

This is an interesting milestone for me for a few reasons. Fiore was the first manual that I ever made a detailed study of, as well as the first composite I ever made. In addition, disagreeing with John Clements over interpretation of Fiore, which stemmed from the research I'd done in compositing the (then three) known versions, was what created the ill-will that ultimately resulted in my ejection from ARMA in January 2006. In many ways, this page represents coming full circle in my HEMA journey. And this is the last of my existing composites to be posted on Wiktenauer--from this point forward, anything else I post will be new work. Expect things to be quiet for a while as I determine what that work might be.

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Fiore_dei_Liberi

And maybe this will put to rest the assumption that Wiktenauer is a German-centric resource.
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Re: Fiore on the Wiktenauer!

Postby John Harmston » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:55 am

Bravo!
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Re: Fiore on the Wiktenauer!

Postby Mike Edelson » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:16 am

Thanks, Mike! I've been meaning to get around to taking a closer look at Fiore (I've only read it once and it was a long time ago). You've made it easy.
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Re: Fiore on the Wiktenauer!

Postby A Froster » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:52 pm

Michael Chidester wrote:And maybe this will put to rest the assumption that Wiktenauer is a German-centric resource.


This is awesome. :o

Should we now call the resource Wiktenauerliberi?
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Re: Fiore on the Wiktenauer!

Postby Jordan Hinckley » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:12 pm

Michael Chidester wrote:And maybe this will put to rest the assumption that Wiktenauer is a German-centric resource.

Who said that? what it comes down to is simple math. there are more German-centric sources, and more people who practice those things exclusively. Those of us who do the Ilalian stuff primarily as I know it did not think it would never be posted, just that it would be longer as the demand was less.
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Re: Fiore on the Wiktenauer!

Postby Jeremiah Smith » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:38 pm

A Froster wrote:
Michael Chidester wrote:And maybe this will put to rest the assumption that Wiktenauer is a German-centric resource.


This is awesome. :o

Should we now call the resource Wiktenauerliberi?


or we could call it the Wiktenflower :D
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Re: Fiore on the Wiktenauer!

Postby Patrick Dean » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:10 pm

Thanks for your work, Michael. Much appreciated.

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Re: Fiore on the Wiktenauer!

Postby KeithFarrell » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:25 am

Jeremiah Smith wrote:
A Froster wrote:
Michael Chidester wrote:And maybe this will put to rest the assumption that Wiktenauer is a German-centric resource.


This is awesome. :o

Should we now call the resource Wiktenauerliberi?


or we could call it the Wiktenflower :D



I like this suggestion! :D
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Michael Chidester
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Re: Fiore on the Wiktenauer!

Postby Michael Chidester » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:44 pm

For some reason, I can't leave this particular article alone, and have made significant revisions over the last few weeks. Most significantly, a handful of PD images have been swapped out for those of other versions in order to better match the text, and care has been taken to follow Fiore's intended organizational scheme by only selecting images that correctly assign crowns and garters. Along those same lines, a few places where the sequence of plays was arranged according to external factors (e.g, "this play says it counters the one four positions earlier, so it should be right after it") rather than allowing it to arise organically from the manuscripts in their raw form were fixed. This includes the two images from the baton section that seem to be transposed--Wiktenauer is in the business of documenting manuscripts, not "improving" them, and that means letting potential scribal errors stand for others to interpret as they will. Whenever there are differences between the different images of a play, that has been noted and the differences described. In extreme cases--when the images don't really resemble each other at all, or show distinct stages of the technique--multiple images have been included. And finally, the text of Vadi's prologue has been added to the presentation of Fiore's Latin prologue for reference (and a very interesting comparison it is).

While some degree of interpretation is inevitable whenever this sort of work is attempted, I think at this point we've made every effort possible to present the text in a neutral fashion. (If you disagree, let us know and we'll see if we can incorporate your suggestions--I'm really enjoying working on this article and would be happy to continue.)

Going forward, look for a full transcription of the Paris manuscript that a benefactor has offered us, and a translation of the Getty/Morgan armored longsword section that I think I'm going to author.
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Re: Fiore on the Wiktenauer!

Postby John Harmston » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:02 pm

It looks great!
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