Eastern European Saber

A forum for Polish and other Eastern European saber systems.
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John P
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Re: Eastern European Saber

Postby John P » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:17 pm

good finds. Google translate does an ok job

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Tyler Brandon
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Re: Eastern European Saber

Postby Tyler Brandon » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:44 pm

JohnPatterson wrote:good finds. Google translate does an ok job


Thanks again to Ulrich. Good to know about Google. Thanks Google.
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Andreas Engström
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Re: Eastern European Saber

Postby Andreas Engström » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:40 pm

Andreas Engström wrote:
Richard Marsden wrote:Engstrom knows his Swedish manuals inside and out, I wonder what he knows.

Edit = At which point is slipping of the leg in saber seen as a technique, rather than as a rare thing? Clearly, its not unheard of. So, now is the debate really just a matter of what is rare, common, uncommon?

Thanks for the vote of confidence :-)

The leg slip isn't explicitly advocated in my sources, most likely since attacking the legs isn't advocated. Why this is, I honestly don't know. These are military manuals, they generally don't give reasons for things, they just tell you what to do. :-)

However, applying the instructions for a "blind parry" (that is, taking advantage of the opponent overcommitting to an attack which is also at the edge of his measure by voiding and attacking when the blade has passed by) works beautifully as a leg slip since one generally takes a "half-march" back (retracting the front foot and setting it down about a foot's length behind the rear foot) and at the same time raises the point and retracts the sabre to deny him blade contact. This gives a wonderful opportunity to cut his arm or head from above. And it works even better when his attack was aimed at the leg.

My personal experience is (and it's also what I teach) that attacking the knee/thigh is a very good thing in some circumstances (I do it frequently) but as an initial attack from wide measure it's completely suicidal. I also teach to counter it with the above blind parry with a half-march back followed by a return cut to the arm or head.

Any attack to the leg must IMO be a second intention attack, followup or a return cut to be feasible. Possibly this is part of the reason it wasn't included in the manuals; it may have been deemed too advanced and thus not included in the basic instruction for recruits. Another reason may be that it was deemed "ungentlemanly" in some respect. In both cases I'm quite convinced that, like some grappling and other "un-sanctioned" stuff, it was probably taught "off-curriculum" anyway.

Just for completeness, in case anyone cares :-)

Just this evening got my hands on a new manual from 1845 which both mentions attacking the knee (but discourages it, since the author feels it leaves you too open for a counter) and says to defend against this attack by slipping the lead foot up to the back foot and immediately making a reverse lunge (throwing the back foot backwards so you end up in a lunge position) and at the same time countercut or thrust.

-Andreas

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Tyler Brandon
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Re: Eastern European Saber

Postby Tyler Brandon » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:57 pm

Most interesting! Thanks Andreas. I think I will have to play around with that technique some.
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Tyler Brandon
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Re: Eastern European Saber

Postby Tyler Brandon » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:40 pm

http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/phpBB3/vi ... =31&t=9652

FYI: Interesting discussion going on at SG about Michal Starzewski's saber manual.
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Hikaru Sulu: Fencing.

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Richard Marsden
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Re: Eastern European Saber

Postby Richard Marsden » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:51 pm

Indeed!

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Tyler Brandon
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Re: Eastern European Saber

Postby Tyler Brandon » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:21 pm

Richard Marsden wrote:Indeed!


Yes, particulary as it concerns "DIE HÖLLISCHE POLNISCHE QUARTE." As always Ulrich is fount of information and interpretation.
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Richard Marsden
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Re: Eastern European Saber

Postby Richard Marsden » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:35 pm

I sent him a personal thanks!

jermleenats

Re: Eastern European Saber

Postby jermleenats » Tue May 20, 2014 5:34 am

i'm interested in finding some reference pics of sabers from eastern europe, as we all well know its where the saber developed mostly due to the constant turkish invasion and close proximity to other like minded countries.

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Richard Marsden
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Re: Eastern European Saber

Postby Richard Marsden » Sun May 25, 2014 12:22 pm

Zablocki's book, which isn't in English and a touch hard to find, has images of various sabers and where he thinks they came from. It's a good start!


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