Workbooks for Independent Study Groups

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Jonathan Allen
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Re: Workbooks for Independent Study Groups

Postby Jonathan Allen » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:28 pm

The questions have no preconceived answers. I am intentionally avoiding that because I tired of being trapped by other peoples preconceptions about what is right or wrong.

The drawings are primarily for those people who learn better by drawing. Some people can't remember something unless they record it with text or images. Conceivably it will also help the group leader see what the student thinks is important. Especially if they use stick figures instead of trying to copy the original.
Jonathan Allen
Scholars of Alcalá
San Diego, CA
http://grauenwolf.wordpress.com/

Jonathan Allen
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Re: Workbooks for Independent Study Groups

Postby Jonathan Allen » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:47 pm

I am hesitant to change the order the guards are presented because that is the order used in Ringeck and others of his school. Let me think on this some more.
Jonathan Allen
Scholars of Alcalá
San Diego, CA
http://grauenwolf.wordpress.com/

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Borislav Krustev
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Re: Workbooks for Independent Study Groups

Postby Borislav Krustev » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:43 am

Jonathan, if that order has significance to the readership Ringeck and the others expected (that is, people who actually know how to fence), said significance does not apply to beginners in the 21st century. I also think starting with Tag is better.

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Joey Nitti
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Re: Workbooks for Independent Study Groups

Postby Joey Nitti » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:12 am

This is great, well done! I look forward to seeing more of these!


I like that you used a bit from the earlier tradition and the later tradition. And good call on making the questions have no one definite right answer.


I agree with you about the simple parry thing. Forget trying to teach someone a master cut or single-time counter if they can't even manage to do an empty parry. Once someone can reliably defend themselves with simple/empty parries, then it's time to teach them how to do the master cuts.
Joey Nitti
Ottawa Swordplay

"...stab him in the face." ~Sigmund Ringeck

"Will you pluck your sword out of his pitcher by the ears?
make haste, lest mine be about your ears ere it be out." ~William Shakespeare

Jonathan Allen
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Re: Workbooks for Independent Study Groups

Postby Jonathan Allen » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:48 am

Ok, lets say we do start with Tag. What order should we use for the rest?
Jonathan Allen
Scholars of Alcalá
San Diego, CA
http://grauenwolf.wordpress.com/

John Hines
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Re: Workbooks for Independent Study Groups

Postby John Hines » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:05 am

I would do Vom Tag, Alber, pflug, ochs. The reason is alber and tag are the basic guards to launch the strikes. Apologies for any typos. Rush sent from my phone.
Last edited by John Hines on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Joey Nitti
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Re: Workbooks for Independent Study Groups

Postby Joey Nitti » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:00 pm

John Hines wrote:I would do Vom Tag, Alber, pflug,,ochs. The reason is alber and tag are the basic guards to launch the strikes.;


but then we're getting into subjective opinion.

Some would argue that ochs is better for throwing strikes than Alber is. Some could even argue "why should striking ability define the first guard?".


I think it's fine to stick to the order the manuals show. For some reason, many of the earlier manuals show a certain order, and any deviation from that is personal opinion and interpretation.
Joey Nitti
Ottawa Swordplay

"...stab him in the face." ~Sigmund Ringeck

"Will you pluck your sword out of his pitcher by the ears?
make haste, lest mine be about your ears ere it be out." ~William Shakespeare

Ted Elsner
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Re: Workbooks for Independent Study Groups

Postby Ted Elsner » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:41 pm

Arguements could be made for just about any order, if people don't like the order you have presented it really wouldn't be that difficult to have the students follow the lessons out of order. Instead of spending time and resources worry about that I vote for putting the resources into the next set of workbooks.
Ted Elsner
Sacramento Frei Fechter
An MFFG Study Group

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Borislav Krustev
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Re: Workbooks for Independent Study Groups

Postby Borislav Krustev » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:00 am

The earlier sources show a certain irder based on the Zettel. And said order is based on teaching skilled peolle in 14th-16th century, not amateurs today.

but that is hardly so important - people will go through it all.

Jonathan Allen
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Re: Workbooks for Independent Study Groups

Postby Jonathan Allen » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:22 am

Instructions and Footwork Supplement

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vlss1rx6bcgoy ... lement.pdf

Intended to be used along with both level 1 workbooks. This is a first draft so please be cruel.
Jonathan Allen
Scholars of Alcalá
San Diego, CA
http://grauenwolf.wordpress.com/


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