Project Proposal - Rigid Hand Protection

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Sean Karp
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Re: Project Proposal - Rigid Hand Protection

Postby Sean Karp » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:31 am

Dumb questions:

Has anyone posted this question/idea to the Armour Archive's 'Design & Construction' forum to see what the armourer's think?

Have you tried the EGG gauntlets Windrose Armoury sells here?

Bifurcated Leather mittens based upon Skaldic.com's example?

What about, cost wise, the gauntlet kit that Eric sells at Zweihammer Armoury seen HERE?

-Sean
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Ben Jarashow
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Re: Project Proposal - Rigid Hand Protection

Postby Ben Jarashow » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:58 am

Sean Karp wrote:Dumb questions:

Has anyone posted this question/idea to the Armour Archive's 'Design & Construction' forum to see what the armourer's think?

Have you tried the EGG gauntlets Windrose Armoury sells here?

Bifurcated Leather mittens based upon Skaldic.com's example?

What about, cost wise, the gauntlet kit that Eric sells at Zweihammer Armoury seen HERE?

-Sean

Not so dumb, IMO......

I've looked at all three of these, and at least from the pictures on their websites, I worry A LOT that they don't give enough mobility, especially to the thumb and the wrist.

I wish I had the money to buy and try one of these solutions - especially the zweihammer kit, because I have a friend who does metal-work that may be able to customize the kit for me. But I've never seen any reviews of any of these, or pictures of people actually using them so I can get a better sense of their utility before I go and spend cash.... :(
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Jake Norwood
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Re: Project Proposal - Rigid Hand Protection

Postby Jake Norwood » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:00 pm

Reviews would be great.

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A Froster
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Re: Project Proposal - Rigid Hand Protection

Postby A Froster » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:04 pm

Sean Karp wrote:Dumb questions:

Have you tried the EGG gauntlets Windrose Armoury sells here?

Bifurcated Leather mittens based upon Skaldic.com's example?

What about, cost wise, the gauntlet kit that Eric sells at Zweihammer Armoury seen HERE?

-Sean


I can't speak for everyone else but I've tried to avoid going the mitten gauntlet route because many of the longsword techniques require great dexterity moving your hands all around (up, down and around) the handle and pommel. I always felt the mitten or clam shell gauntlet of glove would restrict that dexterity to some degree unlike an articulated fingered gauntlet would. That's just my impression anyway.

Has anyone posted this question/idea to the Armour Archive's 'Design & Construction' forum to see what the armourer's think?


This is an excellent idea! Keep in mind however that many of us practice Blosfetchen (unarmoured combat) where traditionally they didn't use gloves at all. The fact that we use any protection at all is a comprimise to modern day realities (social, medical cost and legal pressures). The point in me saying this is that this community will probably not go for a fully articulated metal gauntlett unless we were studying harnisfectchen. So if we are to comprimise, we want to do it in a minimanlistic way. Ideally, this means a hardened (but light) barrier between metal and bone that does not restrict dexterity in any way. This is why I think ABS plastic gets mentioned a lot in our community.
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Sean Karp
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Re: Project Proposal - Rigid Hand Protection

Postby Sean Karp » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:57 pm

Well what about Titanium? Stealth Gauntlets? The Wisby gauntlet kit that Knitebee sells? Wisby style gauntlet's in general?

I don't have the links handy (darn brain) but I've seen some excellent examples of all of the above, and all have articulation at the wrist and individual finger protection.

My step-dad put it best "a good pair of sturdy, well fitting gauntlets cost $300 easy, but a broken hand costs $500 & 3 weeks easy. You choose which is better." :lol:

If your interested I will search through the ArmourArchive & dig up those links & info. No problem.

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A Froster
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Re: Project Proposal - Rigid Hand Protection

Postby A Froster » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:43 pm

I'm willing to look at any idea after breaking two fingers in two years.
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Ben Jarashow
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Re: Project Proposal - Rigid Hand Protection

Postby Ben Jarashow » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:01 am

Sean Karp wrote:Well what about Titanium? Stealth Gauntlets? The Wisby gauntlet kit that Knitebee sells? Wisby style gauntlet's in general?
I don't have the links handy (darn brain) but I've seen some excellent examples of all of the above, and all have articulation at the wrist and individual finger protection.

Important characteristics to look for:
1. Extreme ability to manipulate the Thumb; it has to be able to open and close around the hilt, as well as move parallel with the blade (perpendicular to the hand, completely open) at the very least.
2. Extreme ability to manipulate the Wrist; moving from a hammer-style grip to a saber-style grip is pretty much minimum, IMO.
3. Side protection for hand and fingers; we use ehough thrusting and winding that one is as likely to be hit hard on the side of the hand as the top (back) of the hand.
I'm sure others can add more to this list, but this is what I've looked for so far, and just haven't seen enough that I'm sure would work.....

Sean Karp wrote:If your interested I will search through the ArmourArchive & dig up those links & info. No problem.

That would be great - you probably have a better idea where to find what you're looking for. I tried, but there's just so much there to go through!
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Jeremy S.
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Re: Project Proposal - Rigid Hand Protection

Postby Jeremy S. » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:10 am

Sean Karp wrote:What about, cost wise, the gauntlet kit that Eric sells at Zweihammer Armoury seen HERE?



Thanks for the link! Those are very similar to a pattern I've been looking at making... and the meager price for the kit is very attractive - I won't say what I'd charge if it came from my shop! :shock:
I like the wrist articulation and with a little modification the thumb would be quite a bit better.

I've been going back and forth between something like those and developing a Wisby-like articulated mitten. I still haven't decided - and still have no shop time so the issue is moot at this point!

edit:
here's the stealth gauntlet link:
http://www.darkheartarmoury.com/stealth_gauntlets2.htm
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A Froster
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Re: Project Proposal - Rigid Hand Protection

Postby A Froster » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:06 am

The Stealth Gauntlet kinda looks like what I had in mind, but with the following problems for HEMA practitioners:

1) The finger tips are fully enclosed. We need to be able to manipulate the sword with our fingertips and not being able to do so would make some techniques almost impossible.
2) There needs to somehow be rigid protection between the knuckles other than thin leather. My finger breaks were both between the knuckles where the sword landed perpendicular to the bone. A metal or hardened spine running between the first and second knuckle would help.
3) The metal looks heavy. It is. Each glove weighs 24 ounces. We need them light as possible. If it were ABS plastic or something else lighter than steel I wouldn't have even mentioned it. I do like the fact that the steel is less bulky than plastic. Maybe graphite is the answer.

Here's what I like about them.

1) The thumb looks well protected with little or no restriction in movement. This area accounts for the largest percentage where people are getting hurt.
2) The glove appears to protect the sides of the hand (pinkie and thumb metacarpals)
3) The finger articulation looks like it would be real good.
4) They provide some limited protection to the wrists.

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Re: Project Proposal - Rigid Hand Protection

Postby Craig Shackleton » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:21 am

I've worked with a guy who is in the SCA but goes to other training events and is working historical longsword under the auspices of their cut and thrust rules. He's pretty HEMA-keen, just plays in a different group. He showed me a pair of gauntlets he made that were pretty excellent. The funny thing is, at the time I didn't fully understand what they were for, but they were stand ins for blossfechten and meant to interfere as little as possible with movement. They were very light, I believe aluminum, and had incredible range of motion, good thumb coverage, and side of the finger protection, but only on the index and pinky, and only on the outsides, so that the fingers had better motion. I wish I had paid more attention at the time, but I've sent him a message asking him to post about them here.


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